Curse

Xenrath · Sep 23, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

so how are u guys figuring that prices will drop.

It's quite simple: supply and demand. Over time the supply of the mods will increase, while the demand will remain relatively stable (if not decrease as people get what they want and then stop buying). Supply greater than demand, means prices go down.

There may be a spike at first but eventually it will start to go downwards.

The Runes are an example. Fewer Sup. Abs. runes in circulation meant prices were as high as 100k. Now you can pick one up for a tenth of the price because the supply increased (more drops in that case, would be the same as more mods being salvaged) while the demand did not.

Akhilleus · Sep 23, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exoudeous

Id worry about it when it becomes reality instead of a rumor

this is my sentiment.
long term anet would have to be INCREDIBLY irresponsible to go through with it. sure plenty of people on the lower-income scale think its a good idea now, but a few months down the line when everything in the game is available to the general public and everyones walking around with the same stuff, it would pose an issue. not to mention, that the tanking of item prices (and they woulf FLOOR very, very quickly) would mean that only 1 thing would hold value; actual gold (ecto would retain value assuming most things would remain at 100k+ectos, otherwise their decreased use as a gold-substitute would take hold), which means that even more people would resort to ebaying.

Loviatar · Sep 23, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

[B]would mean that only 1 thing would hold value; actual gold [/B.

sherlock gold is meaningless already except to get some of the things that will lose the huge inflated value they have now

very reduced prices will mean you do not need all that gold so why ebay it to put it in stotage?

and what is wrong with the majority of players having fun playing a game?

Akhilleus · Sep 23, 2006, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

sherlock gold is meaningless already except to get some of the things that will lose the huge inflated value they have now

very reduced prices will mean you do not need all that gold so why ebay it to put it in stotage?

and what is wrong with the majority of players having fun playing a game?

heres an explanation easier to understand and slightly more in depth.
gold, by itself, isnt worth that much because of the fact that so many things are 100k+, and the things without good skins are worth piddly amounts, like 10-40k.
if anet goes through with this patch the crappy r13 15.50 short-swords (and the bpow/axe equivilants), in their nearly infinite abundance, will be salvaged for the damage mods and applied to chaos axes, crystalline swords, brute swords, stormbows, etc, etc, etc, in each weapon category.
thus, the prices of the higher-end items will drop like MJs pants at a kindergarten talent show, leaving many (if not most items) items over time to be relegated to the 100k mark...
what does this mean?
well, with the increased number of items worth 100k and under, ecto wont have as much of a use for moderating trades, afterall, the single largest use of ecto is NOT fissure armor, its in paying for items worth 200k, 300k, 500k, 1million, etc, etc. since these item's prices are guaged only by their rarity(supply vs demand), yet so many totally crappy ones exist (such as 16<50 r8 cruystallines or whatnot), the crappy ones would all of a sudden be modded with perfect damage mods, increasing the number of r8 15>50 rare-skinned weapons available to the general public by 100 fold. so, with the drop in prices of items, and the drop in price of ecto, and ectos decreased use as a trade moderator, what then, will be the main method of buying items?
answer: gold.
now, gold itself does not gain or lose value, it gains and loses purchasing power (aka, how much you can get for X amount of gold). in short, by decreasing the overall value of items in the gaming market, and NOT simentaneously decreasing the total amount of gold on the market, the purchasing power of gold will skyrocket; inherently increasing its importance in the guildwars market economy, and simentaneously increasing its demand by people who are unable to get what they need by legitimate means.

understand now?

Gavin The Great · Sep 23, 2006, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Ok, let me just say this (probably been said already though)....
A gold 15^50 item will be worth a lot more than a white 15^50 item, no questions asked, it just will. You get people now who will pay like an extra 500k to get a req7 over a req8, so you do not think that they will pay more to get a gold item over a purple or blue or white? I dont mean to sound like I am the god of the universe or anything and its blaitaintly obvious, but it hadn't been mentioned before page 3 of the thread (where I read up to) so I thought I would point it out

Please dont flame ;-) post your comments!

prism2525 · Sep 23, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Guild Wars is about full customisation, and having a req 7 rare skinned sword 15^50 and whatever you want with it is no exception. Also, since weapons will no longer be destroyed, you can switch mods between you weapons when you feel like 'a change of skin'.

I have already got my req 8 white summit hammer to pump and will change my phoenix blade from +20 <50 to 15^50 as soon as I find a 15^50 sword.

I think all value will be left to colour and req, as atm they will be the only things left unchangable (apart from the item value lol).

The inscriptions are (IMO):
15^50, 15/-5 etc. for axes, swords, and hammers.
Recharge/casting time of staffs/wands/focii.

I for one i'm REALLY happy about the staffs. It's almost impossible getting a good looking AND good performance staff. Recently i got:

Insightful Fire Staff of Smiting Prayers
req 8 fire
20% death
smiting +1 19%.

I hope i will be able to sort out such messes.

Tommy · Sep 23, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

heres an explanation easier to understand and slightly more in depth.
gold, by itself, isnt worth that much because of the fact that so many things are 100k+, and the things without good skins are worth piddly amounts, like 10-40k.
if anet goes through with this patch the crappy r13 15.50 short-swords (and the bpow/axe equivilants), in their nearly infinite abundance, will be salvaged for the damage mods and applied to chaos axes, crystalline swords, brute swords, stormbows, etc, etc, etc, in each weapon category.
thus, the prices of the higher-end items will drop like MJs pants at a kindergarten talent show, leaving many (if not most items) items over time to be relegated to the 100k mark...
what does this mean?
well, with the increased number of items worth 100k and under, ecto wont have as much of a use for moderating trades, afterall, the single largest use of ecto is NOT fissure armor, its in paying for items worth 200k, 300k, 500k, 1million, etc, etc. since these item's prices are guaged only by their rarity(supply vs demand), yet so many totally crappy ones exist (such as 16<50 r8 cruystallines or whatnot), the crappy ones would all of a sudden be modded with perfect damage mods, increasing the number of r8 15>50 rare-skinned weapons available to the general public by 100 fold. so, with the drop in prices of items, and the drop in price of ecto, and ectos decreased use as a trade moderator, what then, will be the main method of buying items?
answer: gold.
now, gold itself does not gain or lose value, it gains and loses purchasing power (aka, how much you can get for X amount of gold). in short, by decreasing the overall value of items in the gaming market, and NOT simentaneously decreasing the total amount of gold on the market, the purchasing power of gold will skyrocket; inherently increasing its importance in the guildwars market economy, and simentaneously increasing its demand by people who are unable to get what they need by legitimate means.

understand now?

and another problem is that, this game is too short for hardcore to play 8+ hours everyday 7 days a week. This game is not like WoW or everquest. where you got endless quest and mission+ maps that you can explore.this game only got a limted number of missions and quests not to mention that they are all kinda annoying after you play 10 times already.
some mission are nearly impossible to find a real ppl group and also a pain the in az to beat it with hencheis. farming,trading and collection the items we want are the only thing that holding us buying more chapters and playing. How many copies you so-called casualist bought? i personally bought 4 copies myself. akh and spil probably got more. ppl like us who will buy guildwar games no matter what, and that is how Ncsoft and Anet repay for our royality? if they really make the new salvage kit in nightfall, i will not buy any Ncsoft and Anet product in the rest of my life. It is like their way of saying that" OH! you nerds playing too much GW. I aint making money off you people, you should play like the Nubs, who only play 2 hours a day 2 days a week<like my cousin who bought gw and play only 2 times probably less than 5 hours>. Now, i am driving you out with MY ALMIGHTY NERF BAT.
BTW, ANET you can't force people to pve, why there is 10+ dist in la and KC, when only 1 to 2 dis in most mission?
cuz ppl dont like to repeat the same mission again and again. they dont wnat to pve, nothing can change that.
you force them to do things they dont want to do, guess what? you lose them. period. well, atleat i save myself 116 dollars. Thank You! Ncsoft and Anet!

Tommy · Sep 23, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by prism2525

Guild Wars is about full customisation, and having a req 7 rare skinned sword 15^50 and whatever you want with it is no exception. Also, since weapons will no longer be destroyed, you can switch mods between you weapons when you feel like 'a change of skin'.

I have already got my req 8 white summit hammer to pump and will change my phoenix blade from +20 <50 to 15^50 as soon as I find a 15^50 sword.

I think all value will be left to colour and req, as atm they will be the only things left unchangable (apart from the item value lol).

The inscriptions are (IMO):
15^50, 15/-5 etc. for axes, swords, and hammers.
Recharge/casting time of staffs/wands/focii.

I for one i'm REALLY happy about the staffs. It's almost impossible getting a good looking AND good performance staff. Recently i got:

Insightful Fire Staff of Smiting Prayers
req 8 fire
20% death
smiting +1 19%.

I hope i will be able to sort out such messes.

ok tell me what do you do after you have beaten the game 16 times(all chapters assumming there is 10 chapters) got everything you want, all itmes you ever need and you will never pvp. you dont chest run cuz the cost of key will exceed the cost of the items<assumming all itms are so dirt cheap> you dont farm for gold cuz everything is cheap and you can get w/e you want easily< you just go out to kill a mod and wow you got a req8 crytalline>,you can switch mod among your items so you dont bother to buy anything. You sell all you found to merchants since nobody will buy it. you only play with your heroes and henchies since nobody will party with you. you got nothing to do but dancing with me in Grotto and drink ales

would you still buy more GW if it turns into a game like this? how many chapters will you buy again?

prism2525 · Sep 23, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

In my opinion, all ppl claiming that the new feature will ruin guild wars bla bla bla are ppl who already have rare stuff which they sell for 100k + X ectos and don't want their collections lose value. Ppl who like the idea (like me) are excited b/c finally they will be able to afford a perfect, rare-skinned weapon too.

Frankly, and not meaning any offense, the summit hammer is one of my fav skins, and you don't want me to have a perfect one b/c of your lovely collection? That is not fair. Unless I'm mistaken, Anet said that they never envisaged ecto being used as currency, so this may be the thing that makes things right in their eyes.

I always thought the rare prices were kickin ridiculous. 1 mil gold for ONE sword? you gotta be joking. This will also kill a substantial part of ebay gold sellers, as most items will become available to most ppl, so ppl will buy ebay gold less and less.

prism2525 · Sep 23, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

you only play with your heroes and henchies since nobody will party with you.

how can inscriptions produce THAT if I may ask?

and also don't take my word as if it were the bible. I'm not an Anet insider (wish i was though

)

The Herbalizer · Sep 23, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by prism2525

In my opinion, all ppl claiming that the new feature will ruin guild wars bla bla bla are ppl who already have rare stuff which they sell for 100k + X ectos and don't want their collections lose value. Ppl who like the idea (like me) are excited b/c finally they will be able to afford a perfect, rare-skinned weapon too.

Frankly, and not meaning any offense, the summit hammer is one of my fav skins, and you don't want me to have a perfect one b/c of your lovely collection? That is not fair. Unless I'm mistaken, Anet said that they never envisaged ecto being used as currency, so this may be the thing that makes things right in their eyes.

I always thought the rare prices were kickin ridiculous. 1 mil gold for ONE sword? you gotta be joking. This will also kill a substantial part of ebay gold sellers, as most items will become available to most ppl, so ppl will buy ebay gold less and less.

You are aware that Summit Hammers can be bought for peanuts? The last perfect one I bought cost me 20k and that was ages ago. The inscriptions will not come cheap for along while and would more than likely cost way more than a perfect Summit Hammers costs. Therefore unless you want to wait months and months till the inscriptions cost 5-15k it would be better to just buy a perfect one now. There are certain weapons which with perfect stats wont be worth adding inscriptions to because they cost so little anyway.

How the inscriptions would be applied to dual modded items is interesting. I would guess that you can only get one of the inherent mods in the case of salvaging a dual modded item. If you can only apply one inscription to an item with dual mods it would require you to have the other inherent mod you want on the item.

E.g. Get the +30Hp from a shield. Then apply it to a shield with -2 dmg while in stance to make it +30hp -2 dmg while in stance.

Anet may allow you to apply two inscriptions to an item as long as it fits with the current game mechanics i.e. no +30hp +30hp shields.

If the choice out of two inherent mods is not available and it is random and includes the chance of not getting what you wanted then imo single inherent modded shields, staffs and other caster items would be worth more than rubbish dual modded ones. Just like how now a Sword of Fortitude would be easier to sell to someone after the salvage than a Poisonous Sword of Fortitude.

prism2525 · Sep 23, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

there are still things to get and I'm more than sure that Anet will keep us busy. And in the remotest possibility that gw will start to 'die down', Anet will and something to spice it up again. Titles were one thing to go after, for example, and some titles keep on growing as the game expands (skill hunter, for instance). Weapon collections are way from being the only thing worth in the game.

prism2525 · Sep 23, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

You are aware that Summit Hammers can be bought for peanuts? The last perfect one I bought cost me 20k and that was ages ago. The inscriptions will not come cheap for along while and would more than likely cost way more than a perfect Summit Hammers costs. Therefore unless you want to wait months and months till the inscriptions cost 5-15k it would be better to just buy a perfect one now. There are certain weapons which with perfect stats wont be worth adding inscriptions to because they cost so little anyway.

Tbh I didn't. But I just threw the summit hammer as an example. Let's say any kind of weapon which is pretty rare to see perfect. If I like it and it's easier for me to get, I will like the game more and play more. I don't want to spend all my time on gw farming for that darned perfect weapon that just won't drop.

Loviatar · Sep 23, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

answer: gold.
now, gold itself does not gain or lose value, it gains and loses purchasing power (aka, how much you can get for X amount of gold). in short, by decreasing the overall value of items in the gaming market, and NOT simentaneously decreasing the total amount of gold on the market, the purchasing power of gold will skyrocket; inherently increasing its importance in the guildwars market economy, and simentaneously increasing its demand by people who are unable to get what they need by legitimate means.

understand now?

and there is my point.

observation and guess and not a flame

if something drops from 500k down to 5k (your 100 fold which i think will be close BTW) a much higher per cent of players will be actually able to earn enough ingame gold to get it.

ebay/ign will be selling gold in 50k/100k lots instead of 1,000k k lots as now and will have to be hit hard in the profits in the process.

potential loss of customers combined with radically smaller sale lots.

or if they keep 1,000k sales it will last 10X longer than before reducing repeat buyers

just my opinion and we will see shortly how it turns out.

that is why i cant get excited over it.

i already have what i want and only play for fun

The Herbalizer · Sep 23, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

and there is my point.

observation and guess and not a flame

if something drops from 500k down to 5k (your 100 fold which i think will be close BTW) a much higher per cent of players will be actually able to earn enough ingame gold to get it.

ebay/ign will be selling gold in 50k/100k lots instead of 1,000k k lots as now and will have to be hit hard in the profits in the process.

potential loss of customers combined with radically smaller sale lots.

or if they keep 1,000k sales it will last 10X longer than before reducing repeat buyers

just my opinion and we will see shortly how it turns out.

that is why i cant get excited over it.

i already have what i want and only play for fun

Imo people would still want to buy large amounts of gold i.e. 1 million.

There are 15k armors which cost 75k + the cost of materials. FOW Armor at the moment costs 1.2 million gold a set (I think). The chest running title I think costs 6 million gold or so if buying keys at 600 gold each.

People would also require various services such as running, fow armor trips, fame farming etc which can cost alot of gold. Just to get to rank 3 would cost 540,000 gold based on the typical 3k per fame prices people charge. Therefore although many high end gold items wont sell for the millions they used to there are other things which require massive amounts of gold.

There would be many items which people desire that dont cost alot but when a large number are owned the cost adds up. Nice perfect staffs for example can be bought for 20-30k each. However, if you want your ele to have one for fire, water, air and earth it could cost between 80-120k for a set of perfect ones. Maybe they want to kit out their other chars after that as I assume they would have other chars which they want to look nice and own nice stuff. All the small amounts of gold which items can cost eventually add up.

Ebaying gold is something I dont particularly like but I still think people buying gold in large amounts will be occuring for a long while. I dont think adding inscriptions will stop gold sellers or bots.

Tommy · Sep 23, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

if the 15^50 mod is transferable, you guys wont have a chance to buy ANY 15^50 items with undesirable skins, ppl will just salvage it and sell it for 100k+xxxectos, dont forget ppl are greedy, you can't stop them from always wanted more.+ rare skins will skyrock as well. ppl wont dont have money still can't afford them. and i have a good suggestion
anet can make the 15^50 inscriptions only good for green items. this way both parties are happy. hardcores stick with their items and casualist stick with greens and collector tiems. yeah dont forget sell them for 100k+xxx ecto isn't hard either. the demand will be so high. and ppl wont let it go easy. you still have to farm to get it.

prism2525 · Sep 23, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

The thing is, finding a 15^50 weapon isn't too hard.

Finding a low req, nicely skinned weapon isn't too hard either.

Finding a 15^50, low req, rare skinned weapon is VERY hard.

Anet are just giving the possibility to 'merge' the stats, skin and good req into one item.

The Herbalizer · Sep 23, 2006, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

if the 15^50 mod is transferable, you guys wont have a chance to buy ANY 15^50 items with undesirable skins, ppl will just salvage it and sell it for 100k+xxxectos, dont forget ppl are greedy, you can't stop them from always wanted more.+ rare skins will skyrock as well. ppl wont dont have money still can't afford them. and i have a good suggestion
anet can make the 15^50 inscriptions only good for green items. this way both parties are happy. hardcores stick with their items and casualist stick with greens and collector tiems.

I think that will be a massive problem until inscription fall in price (if they do). If for arguments sake a 15>50 one costs 100k at around release time alot of people upon finding a item worth less than 100k with a 15>50 would risk the salvage in the hope of getting 100k instead of say 30k. Why sell a 15>50 Longsword for 30k when you could get the inherent 15>50 mod and get 100k? Factions items took along while to fall in price and if the same might happen with insciptions then finding those perfect common skinned items might prove difficult.

Tommy · Sep 23, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

I think that will be a massive problem until inscription fall in price (if they do). If for arguments sake a 15>50 one costs 100k at around release time alot of people upon finding a item worth less than 100k with a 15>50 would risk the salvage in the hope of getting 100k instead of say 30k. Why sell a 15>50 Longsword for 30k when you could get the inherent 15>50 mod and get 100k? Factions items took along while to fall in price and if the same might happen with insciptions then finding those perfect common skinned items might prove difficult.

/agree
people will just salvage the 15^50 mod and put it on a desirable skin, instead of selling it cheap, they would ask for a skyhigh price, a req8 white max dwarven axe is easy to get? i dont think so. it will just lead to another economic chaos. ppl's greed will always drive the price high, and nothing can change that. dont you want higher price if you find a good item? again, ppl who are rich are ppl who are smart, they know where to get what and sell for how much.
as long as they are out there.. you guys simply dont have a chace to get 15^50 for dirt cheap.

Akhilleus · Sep 23, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

actually, factions items fell in price almsot daily from their inception, due to an abslutly insane droprate.
and no, this is not out of concern for my own collections, ive really long since stopped caring. it is out of concern for a great line of games with a lot of potential, assuming anet doesnt do overtly dumb acts like tanking the games own market economy. considering noone HAS to buy gold weapons, theres no legitimate reason for tanking them other than to cater to the will of people who care more about their own fortune than the well-being of the game...its just 1 more thing for long-term players to keep them in the game when they beat it, and is the source of GW's in-game economy.
sure, people may think the well-off players are the selfish ones, but the well-off players arent the ones asking for free handouts, and if i were a poor player, who is just now getting into GW, i would seriously reconsider getting GW with news like this...anything worth having is worth working for.